Only if they’re good wheels.
And only if you don’t have to provide ‘favours’ to the wheel builder as well.
horatio, have you gone mad?
i keep telling roadies about shifter, and a few weeks later, after they’ve ridden on their new wheels, they always get this look in their eyes like they wanna marry him.
he didn’t answer his phone so I went with iRide instead… 
he was away. i’m getting a wheel built there atm
after the build he did on my shamals i will only speak of him in the hushed tones reservered for the revered.
Just out of interest, has anyone ever had an experience with a ‘bad’ wheel build?
And what happened? 
not personally, but ive seen the results.
they range from: lots of truing required, taco’d rims, destroyed eyelets and spoke nipples, broken spokes, badly applied/not applied rim tape… it depends on how long it goes before you realise you didnt get a good 'un.
As an experienced mechanic I think that the quality of the hub/rim make a big difference in how easy/hard a wheel is to build.
Good quality hubs (Phil etc.) have flanges and holes that are very precise/stiff etc. and things like this will make a wheel easier to build well.
If you use a good quality double walled rim you will also see what a difference it will make in building a good wheel easily.
Wheel building is actually not so difficult.
I know at first it may sound like an easy thing to say Re. the ease of building a wheel although once you have built a few you will see what I mean.
No real catastrophes, I just got sick of throwing good cash after bad on LBS truing jobs that came back no better than they went in, sometimes worse. The tipping point for me was on one occasion I had a wheel rebuilt by an aging legend of the trade, the wheel came back more than 1/4" off dish. Maybe not such a big deal but he took weeks to do the job, charged through the nose for it, I got the wheel back the night before an event ride and had to burn a fair bit of midnight oil undoing the damage, clawed my way through the ride on hardly any sleep. Like I said not a catastrophe but the whole deal just pissed me off to the point where I got some tools and a Brandt and a Schraner and learn to build my own.
On another occasion some years ago a wheel went in for a rim replacement and came back rebuilt with the NDS and DS spokes in the wrong sides of the wheel. Beats the shit out of me how they managed to confuse them, or why they felt the need to unlace the spokes to replace a rim but they did.
+1
So is the notion that you need a ‘talented wheel builder’ untrue?
Interesting point…
A talented wheel builder may or may not be more experienced than a novice although if you are careful with each turn of the nipple and you are using good quality hubs, rims and spokes you should be able to build a reasonably good wheel.
I think that talented and experienced are a little different.
If you were talented at wheel building you would probably be reasonable at it pretty early on anyway…
NDS and DS, any difference besides length (typically?). also, how do you change a rim without unlacing? just with rims side by side?
Yeah, tape the rims side by side and transplant spokes n nips, one at a time
i like the sound of titanium’s posts. I recommend having a go yourself.
if you know me and can pick it up, i can lend you my kick arse truing stand, tensionmeter and nipple tools anytime.
Also, spoke length calculations are a breeze with spocalc. i’ve built a few sets with old hubs, new hubs, new rims and never been off, always been able to find the hub and rim combo on there. i think there is a link to it on sheldon’s site.
Those sapim SIL nipples make building less messy too.
its a good feeling riding wheels that you built yourself.
A good wheel build should really end up with a wheel that has even tension on all its spokes (relative to the other spokes on that side of the wheel). A good wheel builder will be able to do it efficiently, to a suitable tension for the rim/spoke/hub combination, and with an attention to detail that’ll lead to a wheel that not only looks good, but keeps rolling true for a long, long time. If it does go out of true, it’ll also be a shitload easier to pull it back into shape.
fuck that! i’m a fucking idiot! i don’t need those kind of doubts when i’m out on the bike. i want my wheels built up by a professional.
This is how it’s done (from the Miche website):
"The wheels are completely hand assembled in two distinct phases.
In the first phase the wheel is assembled, scrupulously controlling the spoke tension, the rolling resistance of the hub and the lateral and vertical variation.
In the second phase the wheel undergoes a vigorous massage to settle all the components in their ideal position, followed by final centring after which the wheel is checked again for spoke tension, tilt and oscillation, which must all fall within the strict tolerances imposed on all products manufactured by Fac Michelin.
The wheels are tested further by the QC department and only accepted after strict controls with special measuring instruments."
See, dead easy. One should never omit the second phase. 
ah but do the wheels keep their integrity?
Precisely how many DFU’s, Brendan, would it require to reduce your Shamal’s to a pathetic heap on the floor?
These are the questions which torment me.
I just came across this thread and thought I might add my 2c.
I’ve been building wheels for around two years now. I started off building wheels for people I knew, then went on to build more and more wheels. I liked it, it was fun, and I thought my wheels were pretty good.
About 6 months ago I attended a wheelbuilding masterclass held by David Tamsett. Some of you might know him, and just how good he is. For those who don’t know who he is, he worked at Dirt Works in Sydney for many years, he’s worked for DT Swiss, and is regarded by Holland Mechanics as one of the top three wheelbuilders in the world. Oh, and did I mention he’s built over 7000 wheels?
One of the biggest things I learnt is how little I actually knew about proper wheelbuilding. I’m not talking about choosing a good rim/spoke/hub combination: anyone can do that. To do that you just:
1: Open up a Mavic catalogue, choose any rim. It will be good.
2: Open up a Shimano, Campagnolo or American Classic catalogue and choose a nice looking hub.
3: Only use DT Swiss spokes or something equivalent. Stay away from CN.
4. You’ve got yourself a “good” wheel.
I learnt that there is so much more involved in building good, reliable wheels, and it pays to have been taught by someone like David Tamsett. So, yes, lacing a wheel is pretty easy after you’ve done a few, but to build many wheels and have none come back with broken spokes? That’s something that not everyone can do. I’ve since made my own spoke calculator, as I wasn’t happy with the spoke lengths the DT Swiss one was giving me, and am now selling wheels on eBay to appeal to a broader market.
To give you an idea, I charge $45 for a build, and you shouldn’t be paying any more than about $55-60 for a wheelbuild, unless it’s a rim which has no spokeholes on the outside wall of the rim (they get fed through the valvehole, like UST rims, as well as Campy/Fulcrum wheels), in which case you’ll more than likely be charged more.
As I said, just my 2c
Hahahahahahahahahaha. I see what you did there…