I bought my girlfriend one for Christmas.
It says in the “caring for your saddle” section says " brooks proofide is the only substance that should be used to care for your saddle"
This sounds like a great way to sell more of their products, but what should I be using?
Should I get the brooks product?
If not, what is a good substitute?
Any experiences?
Thanks.
Brooks proofhide. A $20 tub will last you $10 years if you only have one saddle.
Keep it covered if it’s raining. Don’t over-tighten the tension bolt. Simple.
Just to throw in an alternative: I use RM Williams saddle soap. I bought an old brooks saddle of the cranky old cvnt at universe cycles and he recommended the saddle soap. Saddle came up a treat, keeps the leather nicely conditioned etc. Since used it on 2 new saddles with great results.
But yeh, the proofide stuff is meant to be where it’s at.
I bought a tin of Proofide when I bought my saddle, but to be honest I think it is just rebranded Nikwax Waterproofing Wax. They smell the same, have the same consistancy and go on the same. Same thing, just the nikwax is cheaper. You can get it from an outdoors store.
Also, very important: If you don’t have one already, get a brooks rain cover. If it looks like it gonna rain put it on. After riding mine in a Melbourne rainstorm without it the leather on the front end got a bit stuffed and will never be like it was before.
They’re not waterproof IIRC. Plastic bag stowed under the seat works for me.
^ the old ones weren’t. The new ones are. Mine is - has handled Melbourne dourpours admirably.
Thanks for the help.
They really don’t like being left out in the rain, riding them in showers is fine but leaving it unattended and getting rained on ain’t pretty…another recommendation I’ve heard is to throw out the tensioning spanner…proofide is great but i agree with HM, any quality leather conditioner would do the trick
Dissenting opinion.
My oldest brooks is ten to fifeteen years old and has never been covered ,moddycoddle or treated with any respect. When I wash the bike I hose the grunge off the underside of the saddle and leave it in the direct sun to dry. When the top is looking daggy and cracking I apply olive oil and beeswax mix that I use for hand cream . My friend found an old Brooks’s in a bush rubbish tip as dry as sheet metal . He soaked it for two weeks in a bag of linseed oil and is still riding on it. That said proof hide is a good product.
Leather saddles were a commercial product for so long because they were tough and indestructible and can put up with unlimited
abuse. So stop worrying and just apply whatever product is near at hand to treat the leather as it needs
Dissent is good and healthy and I welcome it … but (you knew this would come) I like to listen to people who are experienced in these matters to better understand what the issues are and why things are recommended.
I trust one man. Tony Colegrave has spent a lifetime working as a bicycle saddle specialist (for Brooks and others). Today, even Brooks don’t know as much about saddles as he does and he’s now retired but still keeps a sideline in restoring and recreating vintage Brooks saddle’s (amongst others). If you sent him a Brooks frame from 50 or even 100 years ago he could remake it with new leather shaped in original molds, and has the original stamps and patterns to emboss it with. A true artisan, much in demand but he turns away much more work than he accepts. Amongst collectors he’s clearly the authority and others have understood.
You can write to him at:
Tony Colegrave,
Wellhouse, Northiam,
Rye, East Sussex.
TN31 6HY. UK
I’ll agree with you that Brooks saddles are tougher than most people think. They are hard wearing and long lasting. Recently since Brooks changed owners (and because they were bankrupt) they changed some of the leathers used, which made them more profitable, but the saddles made now don’t last anywhere as long as they used to. The top models (which most people cant afford) still use the best leather, the normal cheapie’s use substandard stuff as many have recently found out. They break in quicker, but they sag and stretch prematurely. Your older Brooks is quite a different product to what people generally ride with today. Old Brooks saddles can last 30 or 40 years (sometimes longer) with normal daily use. Today’s lower priced Brooks saddles last nowhere as long, only a few top models use the best quality leather.
Realistically, the cheaper $100 Brooks saddles available today are a good product and 3 or even 5 years of use is still exceptional value compared to most other cycling products. The old Brooks really used better quality leather than they had to and for what they were charging , and since the change of ownership Brooks are now actually making money (cheaper materials) and reaching a much wider market (cheaper relative price).
A saddle can handle being drenched by rain but it then has to be allowed to dry, otherwise it’ll stretch out so much that the no amount of tension bolt tightening will bring back. Old saddles can also be brought back to life (within limits) and reshaped by soaking them overnight, massaging the leather and reshaping them as they dry. I’ve done this a few times to saddles from the 1940’s and 1950’s that were rock hard, and were otherwise going to be thrown away. Leather likes moisture but not too much. Proofhide works differently to what most people think and is quite a different product to other home remedies mentioned here.
Quotes below from exchanges by Tony Colegrave and other collectors expound and highlight the unique propoerties on Brooks products, Proofhide, water, leather etc
The construction of equestrian saddles is fundamentally different from that of the ‘traditional’ suspension-type cycle saddle, and what is best for one may not be suited to t’other; similarly, the function of a cycle saddle is so different from that of, say, work or walking boots, or baseball gloves (to cite other regularly mentioned examples of ‘how to…’) as to render the analogy totally misleading. The significant use of any sort of oil on this type of cycle saddle, in my experience, serves to impair/eliminate the cardinal virtues of the leather - i.e. it’s resilience, ‘breathability’, and (more subjectively, perhaps) aesthetics.
I don’t think that the oiling (or greasing, even) of the underside of a cycle saddle is ever a good idea, and, if you’ve an irresistable need for a waterproof saddle, I don’t think you should be using a ‘traditional’ leather one.
Regards, Tony Colegrave. Northiam,
We had a brief discussion recently on the subject or soaking leather saddles overnight or even a couple of days in a bucket of water to
rejuvenate them. The idea of soaking a saddle in a bucket of water had always horrified me, as I suspect it does many on this side of the Atlantic, although Tony Colegrave, perhaps the most prominant expert on leather saddles, and Mike Barry, who grew up in UK and also knows a thing
or two about the subject, both testified to doing this rather routinely.Reassured by exchanges on and off list with Tony, I gave it a try.
Initially I soaked the original B17 from my 1962 Schwinn Superior, with the cool older brass badge and the '62 stamp on the cantle plate. It was
badly cracked and sagged, and I made matters worse with massive Proofhide application top and bottom before reading Tony’s advice advising against using Proofhide on the underside. This made it impossibly soft and I feared it was ruined, so with nothing to lose I soaked it for a couple of days.At the same time I soaked my very first Brooks saddle, a Professional, an original purchase upgrade on my circa 1973 LeJeune. It got an intense
breakin on the 1974 Northeast Ohio Century, of which the first 50 miles were in heavy rain. It had been on several other bikes over the last 35
years, most recently my 1986 Peugeot PZ-10. It had become dry, somewhat cracked and sagged on one side, and I thought it had simply worn out. So again nothing to loose.After a couple of days of soaking, I was astounded with the results. The Pro regained its shape and most small surface cracks were healed. It is
now on the Romic tourer I’m commuting on this week, and it looks and feels fine. May not be good for another 35 years, but it will now probably far
outlive me. With the B17, the cracked top layer mostly flaked off in soaking. I applied black shoe dye to the topside to restore the color and
treated with Proofhide. Not exactly NOS, but the cool old badge and '62 stamp are desirable and it is back on the 1962 Superior and feels pretty
good on test rides.This emboldened me to soak several other saddle, all with great results:
A French “Club” brand saddle with badly spread side now has excellent shape again. A Titanum frame Ideale 90 with a pronounced raised ridge down the center has had the ridge eliminated. An Ideale model 59 with alloy frame, but with a lot of surface cracking and discoloration had the cracks mostly healed and discloration addressed with shoe dye. List member Dave Abraham very recently fetched $455 on eBay for a used and somewhat scuffed mod 59, which probably exceeded Dave’s expectations, so rejuvenating my mod 59 was well worth the effort.
With these spectacular results, I even soaked two nearly new saddles, a Swift maybe 6 or 7 years old but with only perhaps 500 km of use and a
Swallow that was NOS 400 km and a few months ago. Both had developed some lines and a slight sag to one side. Soaking corrected the shape of each, which they hopefully will now hold longer. I even soaked an NOS Ideale 87, which I will use to replace my 1973 Brooks Pro on the PZ-10, but which had been sitting in the parts bin and drying out for years and probably decades.Currently soaking an old Brooks Pro, probably 60’s or early 70’s, that I long ago had given up for dead. But after two days in the bucket it looks
pretty darned good. BTW I note that the older Brooks saddles and Ideale saddles, especially older models, seem to use thicker leather that takes
longer to thoroughly wet.I think all of this points out to me what Tony Colegrave and many other leather saddle experts in UK and elsewhere have long understood. Namely,
that leather, unlike the modern plastic stuff, is an organic material, and that maintaining proper moisture is the key to performance. In a wet
climate like England, this may occasionally require soaking used saddles, but in a desert climate like here in West Texas, one may have to soak
saddles more often or even soak an NOS saddle that has sat for years in the parts bin.
That is the basic principle espoused by Tony Colegrave, long time Brooks employee and consultant to the new Brooks owners.=A0 He believes that the underside of a leather saddle needs to breath and to be kept moist. As oils, including those in Proofide, block the pores in leather, just as they do in living skin, he advocates using Proofide and other products containing oils, whether natural or petroleum, on the topside only.
In damp climates like England, just riding a saddle usually allows it to absorb enough moisture, but in desert climates like the West Texas one I just left a few months ago, one must moisten the underside. Tony advocates moistening the underside with just water, not any saddle treatment. When a saddle is severely dried out he advocates soaking it overnight in a bucket of water. This idea horrifies most Americans, but it seems to have long been accepted in UK. Mike Barry, who grew up in England, advocates this also.
After soaking a number of saddles, some seemingly beyond hope, in water overnight, then treating the topside only with Proofide, I’ve had amazingly good results. One of the few I failed to save was a B17 on which I had applied massive amounts of Proofide to the underside, before I became aware of Tony’s advice to the contrary.
Tony does say that after soaking, one may want to clean the underside with saddle soap. Saddle soap is now available in a spray form, and I have used this on the underside of saddles.
I’d re-shape a saddle ‘just by hand’, if it wasn’t badly out of shape - if ‘more is required’, I’d stuff it with screwed-up pieces of newspaper, rather than bits of rag, but I’d guess that the material isn’t crucial. I don’t think that I’ve ever needed to wrap a saddle to keep the flaps down - if you pack the stuffing really, really tight (which is essential, IMO, if the process is to have any effect) the flaps should be drawn inwards, if anything. Tension bolt should be slackened, if possible, before process; for practical reasons, stuffing can really only be done with the leather still attached to the frame.
I’m afraid that I can’t offer you any hope that this process will be successful with a ‘Pre-Aged’ model; IMO, these things are beyond awful and
should be avoided like the plague - a real triumph of marketing over practicality.An occasional, light dressing of ‘Proofide’ is probably a good idea, but I don’t advise it’s use on the underside; light use is just a waste of
money, and heavy use (‘slathering it on’, as some recommend) is likely to do harm - suspension-type leather saddles need to ‘breathe’, and
effectively sealing the underside will prevent this.Tony Colegrave., Northiam, E. Sussex, U.K.
This in’t magic, although it may seem such to those of us who have become conditioned to throwaway synthetic materials. Leather is organic and as such needs the proper moisture to perform well.=A0 But when it becomes too dry it has the ability, within bounds, to absorb mositure and thereby regain condition to a great extent. Tony and probably a lot of the guys in UK and France have understood this for a long time, but not too many Americans seem to have thought much about it. Those used to using or making leather goods probably won’t be surprised though.
I think the reason Tony Colegrave, Mike Barry and others warn against treating the underside of a saddle is that to maintain condition saddles must absorb mositure, and treating the underside with oils blocks this. Proofhide may moisten the saddle initially but it will eventually cause it to dry out by blocking mositure. In a wet climate like England, a saddle may of then absorb enough moisture to remain in balance, as long as the underside isn’t blocked with oils. But in a desert climate like here in West Texas, it may be necessary to soak a saddle in water periodically to restore the proper moisture level.
Once you try this, it isn’t that mysterious. I think we all know that leather (or wood) when soaked in water, will absorb water and swell. What you really have to try to appreciate is that when the leather swells with moisture, little surface cracks close up. Maybe they don’t disappear completely, but they become much less noticeable to sight or touch. And on only slightly sagged saddles, the swelling will often push them back into close to their original shape. If not, then once the saddle is thoroughly wet, it becomes pliable and you can shape it with you fingers. That’s what I did on the Ti-railed Mod 90 with the center ridge - pushed the sides up with my thumbs and pushed the center down a bit. It’s pretty easy to shape the leather when it is completely wet, and it will hold the shape as it dries.=A0 And for spread sides, you can hold push the sides back in while wet and clamp them to hold them in place as the leather dries.
One obviously isn’t going to restore a saddle to NOS this way, but you can close up cracks, smooth the surface to a great, if not perfect extent, and =
mold the saddle back to near original shape. Which, if you are actually going to ride it, is all you really need. Personally I think a saddle with obviously a lot of use, logos worn down a lot, but still with a good shape, smooth surface and shiny copper rivets is in some ways cooler than an NOS one. Sort of the saddle version of patina, I guess. Like a good steel frame from the 50,s or 60’s, it reminds us these are products made to be used for a lifetime, or at least for decades, not thrown away after a couple of seasons.
As I seem to have been drawn into this thread (by proxy, if you will), I feel that it’s appropriate that I should try to correct one or two misapprehensions regarding my views on the matter under discussion, albeit somewhat late in the day. E-mail correspondence is, IMO, an unsatisfactory medium in which to express oneself in a lucid and precise manner, and one which tends to exacerbate the old trans-Atlantic ‘two nations, divided by water…’ syndrome, but, as it seems that this stuff is archived (?verb) for posterity, I’ll try to make myself plain(er).
I don’t think that soaking a saddle for longer than 24 hours will really enhance the process - overnight should be more than adequate. Longer soaking may initially improve the appearance of a ‘badly cracked’ saddle, but no amount of soaking will do anything to ‘heal’ these defects - if defects they are; most of us, especially if we’re of a ‘certain age’ (only slightly older than most of the saddles that we’re considering, in the main?), will have acquired a few cracks and creases of our own, but, although we’re told that our living tissue can be ‘repaired’ to some extent that is not possible with dead animal skin, most (I hope) will prefer to see these ‘defects’ as conferring a degree of distinction. But, I digress…
The best ‘treatment’ for a badly cracked leather saddle, provided that it is still structurally sound, is to ride it regularly, with love and the occasional light dressing of ‘Proofide’. Most of these things have languished, unloved and neglected, for many years, and it can be surprising (sometimes, but not always) just how well they’ll respond to a bit of TLC.
I think Jerry has mis-understood my comments about the leather ‘tearing at the rivet holes’ (which is where it usually occurs, of course). ‘Abuse and overtightening’ implies to me an active assault on the saddle, but I think that most of these things have been damaged simply by neglect; a leather saddle which has been kept in an unsuitable environment, often unused for many years, may well have ‘lost it’s nature’, and the fibers (?American sp.) become brittle - once this has happened, nothing can feasibly be done to ‘revive’ it.
Little mention has been made of my concomitant advice that, after soaking and assessing that it’s probable that the saddle still has a life worth saving, it’s nearly always important to cleanse the leather with saddle soap; I do this in mildly warm water and, having rinsed the resulting crud away, I rub more soap into the leather and leave it to dry - saddle soap these days seems to contain considerably more glycerine than domestic soaps, and this will probably provide all the ‘essential oil’ that the saddle needs. As regards drying, I certainly don’t advise the use of excessive heat, but I=
'd think that ‘in a dark room’ is probably taking it too far the other way; ideally, you’ll need a good flow of air in a warm-ish environment - say, by an open window, on a Summer’s day and out of direct sunlight, and it should be ready to dress (lightly, and topside only, I’d suggest) with ‘Proofide’ within 24 hours. However, ‘in a dark room’ may well be a very suitable environment for maintaining any such saddle when it’s not in use; what I’d suggest is ideal, is a slightly damp cellar, with good air-flow and constant mild temperature - certainly no central heating. Might not suit the rest of the bike, though.One thing that Jerry has most certainly mis-understood, is my opinion regarding the quality of the leather that Brooks are using for their current production. It’s quite true that concerns have been expressed regarding the raw material available to tanners these days, and it may well be that even the best finished product ‘lacks substance’ compared with that available in the past (as has been suggested to me recently, regarding the stuff that I’m using), but I’m quite convinced that the leather used by Brooks (especially that awful material that those poor devils in B’ham are having to use to make the so-called ‘aged’ models) is nothing like the best that is currently available. I have had conversations with the Italian management of the Company, but I don’t think it appropriate that I should discuss these in this forum - even if I had the time, which I really don’t have at present.
Tony Colegrave, Northiam, E.Sussex, U.K.
Below are pics of how I stuffed and wrapped a saddle that was a garbage case. I soaked it overnight, scrubbed the dead dry gunk off with saddle soap, shaped and dried it so that it looked like it should and revived it just enough so that it could be ridden again. Not perfect but original and in keeping with preservation rather than restoration. It was a now rare Brooks Sprinter from the early 50’s. 11cm at it’s widest point and a real deal track saddle from that era. I don’t have before pics, so showing after pics is kinda silly because it still looks rough but I can vouch that before giving it some love it would have torn or snapped if sat on and was way too stiff/brittle to even consider using.
In any case, this is all saddle nerdism. For most people here, all you need to do is ride your saddle, apply a little proofhide on the top (once or twice a year), and don’t ride it if gets soaked (let it dry first). And yeah … proofhide on the top only 
A $20 tin of proofhide that should last you 6 to 10 years, maybe more.
Thanks Spirito, great read. There’s so much lore and (mis)information about Brooks saddles floating around isn’t there? I bought a new B17 standard a while ago, heaps of proofide on top and a metric arseload of Sno-Seal on the bottom, cooked in with a hair dryer. I thought this was the right thing to do given that I knew it would be ridden in the rain and based on what I could google.
One ride in three hours solid rain made it sag like a mofo and become very floppy. I finished the ride, let it dry out for a couple days and it returned to shape and was thoroughly “broken in”. It was very comfortable, looked great, felt great. I swapped it out for an old Specialized V-groove recently.
I’ve never felt comfortable with the special requirements of running a Brooks for the type of riding I do. “Don’t ride it if it’s wet”. What if it gets wet 2 hours into a 12 hour ride? So I’m forced to use fenders, which don’t make it waterproof anyway, or a goddam plastic bag. Ugh.
Love the comfort, love the look, love the history but for long unpredictable “adventure” rides I won’t use a Brooks. Horses for courses I guess.
Thanks heaps for that Spirito. I wish I had known about that not waxing the underside thing eariler.
So you say that the standard models use a cheaper grade of leather, yes? So this could be a justifiable reason to upgrade to the Ti version? (I can get over how much Brooks saddles have come down in price. I was looking at a couple of German sites that sell B17 stds for $60AUD and Ti B17s for $150. I’m sure they were more than double this 2 or 3 years ago).
That only goes to show how little I know about leather. Had always assumed that water was ALWAYS the enemy of leather, but whaddyaknow, turns out it can be beneficial when used correctly. Really interesting about not treating the underside, but it makes sense when I think about it.
I wonder what the ramifications of soaking a saddle with sweat are? I sweat like mofo, and on a hot day my 32km commute can leave my b17 with noticeable wet patches from my sweaty arse. I’ve only ever used saddle soap on it, and been using it for over a year with no detrimental effects that I can notice. One of the rivets near the nose has some slight surface rust, but the saddle isn’t out of shape except for being perfectly molded to my arse bones.
Has anyone read anything about sweat affecting leather? It’s a shame Michael Hutchence is no longer with us, I reckon he might’ve known a thing or two.
cows seem to handle the rain pretty good no reason a brooks won’t cope 
That’s what the Proofhide on the top is for (effectively seals it). Without it a saddle should break in earlier. Some sweat/moisture is good but if it’s always wet then it’ll sag and probbaly won’t last as long.
I’m not a Brooks spokesman but an occasional wet ride isn’t going to do any harm. Saddle cover’s will keep it dry and they tuck in underneath, out of sight between the rails.
yes, you have my blessing
Ive used my Brooks when touring in europe, running mudguards. Never had much of a problem and it rained solid for days when we were riding, resulting in it being a little softer at the end of the day. Without guards different story. Kept it covered at night with my official TDF saddle cover 
Nice one Spirito, some informative reading there. I ride a B17 narrow that needs a bit of reshaping, unfortunately I proofided the underside when I got it but it’s still ok, just got a ridge and is slightly bent. Ive been fitting a G clamp on the ridge at night and this has been helping things.
I once bought a brooks pro at a police auction in the UK for 14.75 GBP with a Ruption BMX underneath it. Sold the BMX for 10 GBP to a flat mate. Was the most comfortable brooks I ever rode. It looked like it have never been sat on, had been weathered for a number of years and the leather was so loose and supple I had to tension it heaps to actually be able to sit on it but the result was truly blissful. Best.Saddle.Ever. I no longer have it due to overseas moves etc but am on the look out for another Pro - they have a great shape.
As always spirito educates.
I like brooks.
I like riding.
I never wear a shower cap so neither does my brooks