cranks - square taper - 25Nm

hopefully a simple question,

When tightening down square taper cranks, typically how far down the spindle (mm?) will the crank arm sit from the ‘zero’ position; ‘zero’ position meaning put crank on, hand tighten down the crank bolt until the crank doesn’t move.

It depends.

would it help if I added in Sugino 75s on ISO Phil?

Are you worried you might end up too close to the frame?
If so you might need a spacer?

yep, that’s it. It’s v tight at the moment (fat chainstays) so trying to figure out how much wider a bb i need; if the crank sits down say 4mm then i can get away with a 5mm wider bb.

You worried about crank arm to chainstay clearance? How much room you got before “gorillaring” up the bolts?

Yep, crank arm on chainstay.

not sure i get what you mean, re gorillaring up, hoonz. Do you mean how far before i start to torque it down?

right now, it will touch the NDS before i get to torquing it, i reckon.

I’m no pro mechanic, but since its a Phil, check the DS and NDS at the same time. If DS is also touching before you start cranking, you’re miles off. But if there’s room there, play with the offset (bring the NDS out) and see what you can do. Hitting the chainstay before tightening with an allen key sounds like you’ll need something longer.

Again, this is word of an amateur, but I think grabbing a couple of cheap shimano BBs will let you find the right length before buying another Phil… tapers vary a little, but I doubt the “right” length shimano will be the “wrong” length Phil.

thanks JP, you’re exactly right. i defintely need another bb, but shimano is JIS and i can’t find any ‘long’ ISO bb

i think i should be right with a 5mm longer bb though - fingers crossed!

thanks everyone for the help

75’s are ISO and he has a ISO BB
The length will be different from a Shimano (JIS) BB.
FWIW i’ve run 75’s on a Shimano (JIS taper) 107mm BB and on a phil (ISO taper) 109mm BB
If the OP already has a 109mm ISO phil and is getting interference the frame might be the problem in which case a longer spindle might solve the interference problem but at the expense of the chain line

MOAR about tapers

Get a campy 111 or 115mm ac-s bb perhaps. ISO taper and good value. Or dimple your chainstay.

Thanks Blakey, yep the dimple chainstay is a (not so good) last option!

Hahah! there you go, Sugino 75s are ISO tapered. Thank-gawd you guys know what you’re talkin bout :slight_smile:

Gorillaring = tightening. Generally I apply the “gorilla” in a sentence when referring to something thats unecessarily tight. This time just for lols. I’m running 75s with a Campagyolo pista BB on a gazelle road frame with 130 between the drop outs and the crank arms are close to chainstays’ - like a few mm but works well. The 75s didnt move back much when I tightened the bolts if I remember correctly.

Thanks hoonz, that’s really helpful, particularly the bold bit.
there may be an element of confirmatory bias on my part though…

I once put a rear cassette spacer inside the flange of a BB to hold it out a couple of mm and ensure the chain-ring did clear the chain-stay.