So I got some Sugion 75s but they don’t seem to want to go in as far (on the axle) as the Shimano 600 cranks. I gather there’s only two types of square taper (campag and shimano/ISO whatever). It’s a shimano BB so I’m somewhat confused as to why the cranks don’t go in as far. As a result the chainline is not so great and there’s a regular clicking noise (which I assume for a few reasons is the powerlink).
Is there any reason the Suginos won’t go on as far? (axles were well greased before the cranks went on). Can someone explain the different width BBs? Is this purely to do with how much distance there is between where the axle pokes out of the BB and the tapered bit?
There’s your little problem there.
ISO is ‘Campagnolo’, J.I.S.is ‘Shimano’.
Sugino 75’s are ISO cranks for ISO spindles.
The cranks are designed for different tapers and hence will sit at different places on a JIS spindle.
Use either a Sugino, Campagnolo or Phil Wood bottom bracket (i’m sure there are others) and you’ll be fine.
As far as bottom bracket lengths go, the difference in length is in the round spindle itself, not the tapered part. ALL cranks should sit all the way on, on a correctly-tapered bb. Different length bottom brackets are for optimal chainline for that specific drivetrain (track, mtb ss, geared)
Were they Shimano 600 road cranks or track cranks? If they were road you will probably need a different length bb. Either way you will need one with the correct taper.
Yup, what Spud said.
You need an ISO BB in 109 mm length (if you’re using a standard track hub).
Miche do ISO BBs as well.
i have some dura ace cranks that don’t fit on my miche BB. but that’s ok, they’re going on my new build, anyway.
I got my sugino 75’s on a shimano BB (111mm symmetric spindle) best chain line on all of my bikes. Which I just realised is contradictory to everything said here.
My race bike came with Superbe Pro cranks on a 111 Campy pista bb.
I’m now running them on a 109 Superbe Pro spindle.
If you measure how far they are sitting in by looking at the distance between the back of the spider and the chainstays, they sit about the same distance off.
So even with the longer ISO spindle, they give the same chainline as the shorter JIS.
I’ve also run a shitty 115 spindle as I was too shit scared to run the shorter ones coz I thought if I gave is some real gas the frame might flex enough to bottom the spider out on the chainstay. Gave a really shitty chain line.
Not going to happen. Trialed it this weekend. I think I’d need R Bayley thighs to flex it enough.
<Sound of a can of worms opening>
PS: I agree, ISO for Italian & copies of Italian (eg 75’s & certain Sugino super mighties), JIS for the rest.
i take it my durace ace cranks might be ISO, then?
If your cranks don’t fit an ISO bb, what makes you think they will be ISO?
Ahhhhhhhhhh. As a campag fanboy that makes me a lot happier that Shimano are the ones not complying with standards. Excellent news indeed. I also have a campag BB kicking around. Swoit.
Shimano 600 cranks were road.
I’m running a velocity track hub. Is it wrong to assume that’s 109?
Blakey: what’s wrong with greasing the axle tapers? I was taught to grease virtually everything before you put it on to stop parts seizing up (when you want to take it off again) or doing nasty things to threads.
It’s the exception that proves the rule?
Shimano: Don’t grease (Explanation: You may overtighten and split the crank)
Jobst: Grease (Installing Cranks by Jobst Brandt)
Personally, I grease lightly.
(Shimano are complying with a standard, JIS. That’s like saying a Whitworth threaded bolt doesn’t comply because it doesn’t mate with a metric nut.)
Shimano should know by now that everyone uses a torque wrench when installing cranks so that would never happen…
i totally fucked my sentence round the wrong way.
but now that i think of it my shimano 600 cranks fit snugly on the same BB. :oops:
Another 2 cents worth!
I think spud said the same thing differently below … but the taper angle of the two standards - JIS & ISO - is the same. The difference is that the ISO spindle “starts” earlier on the taper than the JIS; effectively any crank will end up at the same end point (exception noted later) but relative to the measured length will sit “further onto” an ISO spindle than a JIS. Hence the descriptor of a “shorter” JIS spindle.
The exception being if a JIS crank is fitted to an ISO spindle and then the crank bolt bottoms out before the taper has taken up fully - big, potentially expensive, problem!
Best answer is to fit like to like, but not be put off mix-and-match.
Sugino 75s go onto ISO.
I am a greaser for the sake of the record.