Nope, not that one. That one is a Visp in comparison to the one I’m thinking of. (Assuming my memory’s not broken and I’m thinking of another classic Italian powder blue track bike… Spirito posted a pic of it recently.)
That’s the one!
BEST TRACK BIKE EVA
‘Visp in comparison’??? How dare you
Def should have taken the $1600 i reckon too. I’m claiming this auction will mysteriously end before the actual end of auction (due to not getting bids high enough). P.s i HATE when sellers do that. Put a reserve/start price on it for fucks sake.
1600USD is over 1900AUD
it is nice but it is not 2k nice
in my opinion anyway, but someone might pay that for it
Grasshopper. You’re looking at it with a young set of eyes but in saying that there’s also something to what you say.
Ugo de Rosa was the man who top class professionals used to line up to see back in the day to have frames made for them, and paid with their own money. It is with no surprise that his handiwork has attained cult status. Hard for you to see this, especially as his frames are more often than not very simple, without gimicks or much flash detail. What his frames do have is classic construction, great geomtetry and are well balanced (good handling and ride well). That de Rosa frames were never produced in large numbers also goes a long way to keeping the values high.
Eddy Merckx had Ugo de Rosa frames made for him for a few years. Eddy paid for these, and they were painted as Molteni team bikes. When Eddy set up his factory and production of frames under his own name he did so with with help from De Rosa. In fact, early Merckx frames and de Rosa frames from the 80’s are very similar in style. Merckx even went as far as using the same BB shells with Italian threading for his own production bikes.
Eddy helped Ugo, Ugo helped Eddy. Yes, there’s a lot of hype there … but it obviously works.
Ugo catalogue hype
Eddy catalogue hype
Also aiding de Rosa’s reputation that a Nagasawa worked for Ugo in the early 70’s. Again the influence in early Nagasawa frames is clear and very much like de Rosa’s of the same time.
Then there’s family which still run the business today. Ugo’s 3 sons and his wife all work together. No matter which de Rosa you bought a “de Rosa” had some input or direct involvement. All in house. They pride themselves for being hands on … keeping it real as they say. In fact, most days Ugo sits in the shop front (chain smoking !!!) and happily talks about the past, old bikes and his secret stash of former pro bikes he highly treasures.
Priced an original Gibson Les Paul? Why do early Porsche’s command so much money considering they are are flawed from an engineering perspective? What makes vintage Krug more expensive than Yellowglen? Does a Rolex keep better time than a swatch?
Perceived value and collectibility are odd bedfellows and sometimes disproportionate. They are highly valued because they’re an icon, defining and timeless. The most desired by the cognoscenti. The ne plus ultra. You’re not simply buying a bike to ride, you are buying a status symbol and in some cases an investment. You’re buying prestige, pedigree and history.
Early de Rosa frames are indeed some of the most sought after and highly prized bikes, the trickle on to later production bikes such as the one in question here is a byproduct of that. Most any current production Keirin frames would be equal to and often technically better than anything that has come out of Italy but cycling has a long history of myth and hype and we all go gaga for anything Italian.
I had a really nice de Rosa. Quite a rare one too … commemorative edition. Great to ride, lots of nice details, had it certified and credited by Ugo’s son as one that Ugo actually built, thought I’d be buried with it. Then after some time I sold it when I came to boldly confess that my Jim Bundy frame was just as nice to ride. Not as flash, not as much collector cache, but it’s a bike and I accepted it was more important to ride than collect.
At some point I had to re-evaluate and now place importance on a personal level or go for fun factor. I am as excited about a Raleigh Twenty, as I am about a noodly Vitus, as I am about a gas pipe Apollo, as I am about a 753 Kenevans that I had made for me, and sold long ago and keep looking for. It’s all relative, it’s all good. I try to steer away from fashionable bikes and like tinkering with all sorts of bikes from different era’s. There is no perfect bike. It all depends on your mood and road/ride you have in mind.
^^^^^
makes me feel like less of a berk for the comment earlier.
And thanks to Spirito, I confess I was wrong. The bike I was thinking of is a Masi.
The most beautiful classic track bike ever.:
Nice fork crown
i know who ugo de rosa is, i just dont think it will sell for more than the offer that was apparently rejected - if it was me i would have taken the offer (no ebay fees, etc etc)
it might sell for more, it might not… depends if there are any collectors in the market for it over the next few days
That is some serious porn !
Thanks for that Spirito! I proudly own a De Rosa:
I got it for a grand back in the day. Fully decked out with Campy Daytona, and some mavic open pros which ended up cracking at the eyelet so got replaced by the Khamsins. My first real road bike, so at the time I knew it was good, but didn’t quite know how good! In the photo above it is decked out for a long distance tour, hence the high bar position, saddle bag, and pump. Normally I don’t break so many Euro cyclist rules 
It is rare for me to go out of a morning and not get a few comments from other cyclists about the bike. So many simply part ways with the comment: “One day I’ll own a De Rosa”. I love that De Rosa are still making bikes in the family when so many other big names have shipped their name off to Taiwan. And I know it sounds corny but I love feeling part of that history every time I jump on for a ride.
Being aluminium this particular De Rosa is a harsh mistress over coarse pave but it makes up for it by being able to ascend like shit off a shovel. Plus fashion comes before comfort right? Unfortunately the paint has a microcrack at the seatpost/top tube joint about 1cm long. It hasn’t moved in 12 months over some pretty harsh road so I’m fairly convinced it is the paint and not something structural. Will take it to be x-rayed soon though to make sure and give me my piece of mind.
For a laugh I’ve also found a couple of “action photos”.
Ipswich 100 Mile, leading the pack through a turn:
Descending from O’Reillys rainforest retreat here in QLD:
Not many collectors will be going for this one. A lot of newbs and pardon the expression “fixie fashionista’s” with lots of cash and no clue will buy up anything with a name. It’s a good frame but not the one that smart money will be drooling over to get at it.
To put into perspective the 3 blue track bikes pictured above were former team/pro rider bikes from the mid 80’s and confirmed by Ugo in person. They sold for between $3,500 and $4, 500usd off ebay to private collectors about year ago. A rough as guts early 70’s de Rosa frame sold privately for upwards of $6,000usd just over a year ago. For a early to mid 60’s frame there are some who will pay more thank $10k.
Keep in mind whatever you pay now for a de Rosa, it will be cheap compared to whatever it will cost in a few years. With most collector items, prices aren’t linear and often people look back and wish they ponied up whilst they were relatively affordable, before prices rocket beyond reach. $3-400 a few years ago is now selling for about $1000 these days. Prime colour/size frames even higher and track frames higher again. I personally wouldn’t buy one … too expensive, but I’ve owned a few, have ticked that box and find some of the smaller italian makes to be just as good (Scapin, Tommasini, Chesini, Gios, Ciocc etc) and better buying.
basically agree with everything you are saying here
Really? ‘smart’ money isnt on this relatively recent de rosa, but people often look back when bikes like de rosas age and wish they had paid relatively little earlier? I guess if you can afford a $10,000 frame and fork you wouldnt be interested in this one, but people looking for either a cool bike to ride or something that will appreciate will both be served well by this frame and fork… no? I’ve never been super interested in buying a de rosa and dont know if ugo made this one or not, i guess if it’s one of his sons or someone else making it, i can understand the attraction of the older ones.
‘Collectors’ might be keen on older bikes from a builder (i guess because they want something rarer than the next collector?), but i like the idea of getting a frame built by a master nearing the end of his career. They all get better as they go along, find better ways of doing things.
Ugo didn’t build this one. Some dude called Giovanni may have. He drives an old Fiat, gets berated by his wife, is pretty smelly and lives for Fiorentina football. His idea of cultural diversity ends with Benny Hill reruns and hasn’t ridden a bike in 20 years, and that was only an MTB clunker to commute to school. At least they were made in Italy, but that doesn’t count for much these days.
Ugo hasn’t built a frame for many years, and his sons love bikes, are very knowledgable but built very few. Just enough to understand what’s involved and get familiar with production. The hard graft for the most was carried out by men who are for the most factory labourers and usually have little or no interest in bikes. It makes more business sense to hire people to carry out the work and oversee them. It’s a just a job for them.
Of course marketing will have us believe differently, and we cyclists are prone to being equipment whores and have a propensity for myth and mystique.
De Rosa bikes are fine, very good quality and some of the best but they are manufacturers and there’s no little old man crafting art by hand, one by one anymore. Hasn’t been for decades. If you want that, there’s many builders in Japan, a few here in Oz and a resurgence of the trade in the US. Europe is awakening to the old practice of handbuilt frames but it’s by people we’ve never heard of and the big names have for the most shipped production to Asia (which isn’t a bad thing, just not buyers are made aware of).
Here’s a realistic picture of framebuilding from the early 80’s. Merckx factory, but it could be de Rosa, Pinarello etc etc. These days it’s mostly Taiwan.
My understanding was that the carbon frames are made by Ling, and the rest are made by Giovanni in Italy.
Just checked the auction again. I found it outrageous that seller’s like this post one vague pic with hardly any detail and think they’ll get big $'s. Even more mind boggling is that sometimes they do get high prices, and buyers don’t demand more from sellers.
Giovanni was just a joke.
It could be Bruno, Alfonse, Roberto or Nuncio.
What I’m trying to say is the frame builders are just staff, not the principles behind the name.
At the end of the day though, who cares if it was made by a factory laborer, or by the man himself? A factory built steel bike will probably be more consistent and with better tolerances. The whole ‘hand made’ obsession is mostly esoteric wank IMO.
I disagree. The difference in ride between a hand made bike and something made by a skilled artisan could be very little or not at all. That makes sense … similar materials, similar angles … they’ll ride very much the same if they’re built so they’re true/straight.
Factory bikes tend to be churned out, made to time limits and with less finished detail. Old Raleigh’s were like this, many Colnago’s were outsourced with varying standards. Otoh … one man shop bikes are clearly made to higher standards. There is good reason that Richard Sachs bikes have a 5+ year waiting list and he has stopped taking orders. Wanna buy a Vanilla … you better also wait. And pay.
Your use of Esoteric just means that you are too cheap to justify paying for something built to a higher standard. I like nice things and can afford them. You may call me a wanker but I consider myself discerning, sophisticated and appreciate quality. In the same I also go to Ma and Pa restaurants, spend my oney with people I know cooked the food. I know my baker’s name and appreciate his fine craft. I’ll sooner spend money at the farmer’s market too. Why should it be any different for bicycle frames … I’d rather support a tradition and pay a little extra knowing that my ride was truly built by a person whose name appears on it the down tube. There’s nothing wrong with appreciating hand built.
Put a price on art. Having a frame built for you costs what … $2000 - $6000. That’s fuck all considering it will probably outlast you and be handed down to the kids. Those rides, those memories add up over a lifetime and knowing the complete history and provenance of the bike, including who built it, supporting their handiwork … this is the stuff dreams are made of. Buying a cookie cutter bike online that is not any different to hundreds and thousands of others is to my mind a waste of money and just goes towards landfill at the end of the day. No soul, nothing special.
However, a thing of beauty is a joy forever. You’re not going to quibble about the extra cash in 10 or 20 or 50 years time. You’ll more likely think that it was money well spent. Add up all the money you’ve spent on bikes and maybe you’ll wish you just bought the best and focused on just riding it.