Gday Nobody, great job on the little bike!
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I thought you said this thread wasn’t about old worn out bicycles…?
I’ve had lots of lower back & knee pain over the years, mostly stemming from a blown ACL that went undiagnosed for 8+yrs & poor pedalling technique that saw me using all quads & lower back instead of glutes & core.
best thing i ever did for my cycling was see an exercise physiologist to sort out my glute activation & join a gym (last november). chased after a mate on a fully loaded tourer for 3 days recently & zero issues with back/knees. massive win.
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Well it’;s Spring time down under and my downunder ain’t too happy lol.
Yeah the usual story after a spell off the bike…the rear end hurts more than my legs that get fatigued a lot quicker due to time off the bike…not sure that I could ever do 50kms now without coming home half crippled. I’ve been through 3 different saddles over the past few years and they ll hurt the bejesus out of my butt.
I know I need new cycling shorts…i’ve got a pair of Bellwether lycra shorts I bought many years ago and I’ve since lost probably close to 20 kilos since i bought them so now they are way too big and floppy…the padding moves around too much now to be of much use and often gets caught on the nose of my saddle as I remount the bike after a stop. I also think there’s not much difference now in wearing them as they too chafe due to that they move around the padding now feels like a ginormous nappy back there that’s more a hindrance than a help.
I haven’t bought new cycling shorts, often they are very expensive as I’m not a lycra lad cycling 7 days per week and i’m now not working and living off savings till i get pension in january.
What brands should I look for that will give me that comfort to get me riding again as it’s agony riding with cotton jocks under my shorts. I really don’t know how I did it back in my youth when there was nothing like the lycra shorts that are around today. How do I measure them to fit properly…i don’t know if I should go into a bikeshop and try them commando style…maybe others have before me…who the hell knows and I’m not confident on ordering online coz I’m concerned about buying the wrong size.
I really need to feel more comfort in my later 60’s on the bike to keep me riding again.
Cheers
brumby33
(Dave)
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Hi David,
It sounds like you have bike fit issues and/or the wrong saddle more than anything. What saddle do you have? How wide is it? What’s the padding like?
Is your saddle too high? Is your saddle flat at about 1/3 way along from the nose of the saddle?
IMO, don’t use cotton jocks on a bike. Use boxers, trunks, under shorts. No seams to rub. If you’re talking about padded cycling shorts, then it should be commando anyway IMO.
I don’t use cycling shorts and I don’t have issues because everything in the fit area is about right and the saddle suits me. However, riding off road I’m also standing a lot.
When I bought this saddle, I had my sit bones measured at 143mm so bought a saddle to fit those measurements. but I’m not finding these harder saddles good at all. I might just go the whole hog and buy a genuine leather Brooks saddle and break that in while it’s breaking me in lol or to buy another of the gel seat that came with the Vivente bikes but mine got damaged when the bike toppled over one day.
I played around with Saddle height, back and forth a couple of weeks ago and I did find it may have been a bit too high so I lowered it and it does feel better in relation to the rest of the bike but it’s that bit where it’s just so sore around my butt and I constantly feel as if I’m slipping off towards the front of the saddle yet it appears to be level and not sloping down towards the front.
I don’t wear those brief undies, more like those tradie type but I think the brand is Bonds…maybe I should get synthetic…i don’t know as lycra is a synthetic material and it breaths and wicks away sweat and dries quicker. I know when as a teenager riding bikes all the time that I wore those synthetic briefs and never had an issue with discomfort but I don’t think I could wear those now…or get away with it 
.
My butt seems to cope with most of the saddles I use. Some less comfy than others.
What im beginning to wonder is if perpetually sore legs is the older cyclist’s life. I rode to work daily for years and dont recall sore legs like I currently have had since I restarted more consistent commuting. Not joints, just muscle fatigue soreness.
What I try to do is if I feel my legs fatiguing, it pick a low gear with low resistence and just more or less free spin a bit till I feel as though I can load them up a bit more. But yeah I’ve had issues down stairs for a while on the bike, I know it’s more or less harden up a bit but in the meantime…I can barely put pressure on the seat around 20kms.
After your response I still suspect a fit issue. Especially the bit about feeling like slipping off the front of the saddle. So remembering from fitting videos I’ve seen that what you describe is a fitting issue. I asked ChatGPT the following and got a long list of things to check.
“Other than saddle being pointed down at the front. What other bicycle fit parameters cause the sense of falling off the front of the saddle?”
Another option could be getting a professional bike fit. Or do what I did and watch a lot of bike fitting videos, or read articles on it.
I’m thinking maybe buy a saddle with longer rails so I can maybe slide it further forward, the saddle that’s on it now has short rails.
When I bought this bike which in Vivente Website on this model was a Large, it said it suited body heights that covered 178CM which I am unless I’ve shrunk lol.
So for some time, I’m wondering whether or not I should’ve bought the Medium frame rather than the Large. This bike had a longer stem and I was reaching a bit too long so I bought a shorter and slightly higher stem so perhaps it could be the frame.
Keep in mind too that I’ve had this bike for 9 years last Month when I bought it new, I had an older Model of the same make and size before that but it had the trekking bars on it which made me sit up a bit more but the bike I have now has drop bars with bar-end shifters and so all the controls are further away.
So maybe it’s the bike rather than me or a combo of both…maybe it’s time to replace it…but I love this bike…
A lot of the fit answers I got from AI when I asked the question related to there being too much reach. So the L frame is very likely to be too big for you. When in doubt, buy the smaller frame. It’s easier to stretch a frame with components than to shrink it.
From the effective top tube (ETT) of the large which is 575 mm, it should work well with a shorter stem and swept back handlebar like you used to have. I’m 168 cm generally and my Avanti MTB has a 575 ETT. But I’m using a 35 mm stem with a handlebar with a small back sweep.
For “bike reach”, I disagree with Vivente’s method of measuring from sit bones to middle of handlebar. That is because it’s often hard to figure out where the sit bones are supposed to be on the saddle, and the middle of the bar tells you little about the handlebar configuration at the grips.
So I think it’s more effective to measure from the back of the saddle to the middle of each grip individually, then average the results. It’s simpler and tells you more about the total reach IMO.
For example, both my MTBs have a reach from back of saddle to a grip of 76.5 cm. Even though their handlebars are different widths, different length stems and different size frames. My road going commuter bike is 77.5 cm.
By comparing the ratio of our heights to my 77.5 for commuter gives 82 cm from back of saddle to a hood middle. If it’s greater than that, it could be an indicator that the setup is too long for you.
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Yes the Original bicycle when I bought it new had a much longer stem so by raising the height of the bars plus a shorter stem made it more comfy…but yes I’ve always felt that the set up is too long for me.
I’m not that long in the legs or torso…my motorcycle seat height is 835mm high, I can’t flat foot it on both sides at the same time, a mate of mine who had the same motorcycle, is the same height yet he can easily flat foot the bike on both sides…got me buggered!!
I’ll try and work on the seat issue first I think, see if I can get a longer rail seat so I can slide ot a bit further forward.
Seat Posts…are there different posts that give you different seat rail angles?
I can’t really change the handlebars as the bar-end shifters and Hydraulic brakes need to be considered.
Might sell mine and buy a Surly disc trucker or a Kona Sutra or maybe a good gravel bike…I have no interest in E-bikes even thoough I’m old and decrepit 
I might sell my Trek marlin 7 too and just buy one good bike.
I’d love to get a new Vivente but at $7500…a bit too much for me now.
Cheers
Dave
Seatposts come in different offsets. If you get a zero offset post which are mainly used for MTBs that would likely allow the saddle to come forward somewhat.
Surly bikes aren’t good value for money anymore IMO. After I cracked my Surly frame after 4 years I was never going to think much of them again anyway. But they have gone up in price so much since 2009.
I have a Kona and think the frame is well made so far.
This forum makes it simple to post photos. Post a photo. Of the bike and perhaps of you on it. Blur the face for forum consideration.
I agree large sounds big for someone at 178cm height however you should be able to make it work with stem length and saddle placement. There used to be a fit calculator on competitivecyclist.com Perhaps this one is good too. https://www.jensonusa.com/bike-fit-calculator?srsltid=AfmBOor5VETw5CDRqKXgG9g4VWsEffKLunaX4bDruswtEQ1Je7jj7m2d
I agree have the seat forward on a zero offset post anyway. Not just for fit, it opens the hip angle making it easier to breathe for a given hand height.
With respect to a sore bum, yes saddle shape, width and placement is a personal thing and it wont be arrived at immediately. Saddle height is easy. A slight bend in the knee at the bottom of the pedal stroke whilst seated. Start there and micro adjust. Too high and the hips rock, too low and the knees are too bent. Power and comfort drops at both extremes. After no time in the saddle it will take time to become bike fit and that includes the glutes and butt.
With respect to bike shorts I use bib knicks. 3-5 hrs in the saddle is a normal ride. Regular clothing equals chafing, flaps in the wind and is less comfortable. I don’t give a sh it that non-cyclists call me a mamil or dislike it. It is there for a purpose and that is riding my bike. YKYW in asia L/euro M from AliEx for $30-40 will do me 5hrs at 184cm/80kg.
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What’s a good bike?
IMO it’s one that fits well and satisfies your riding purpose.
It sounds like you need to get your fit sorted and define your riding purpose. Once they are done you’ve got a better chance of getting the bike that works for you.
Some people get a bike fit before they buy a bike, which is often a smart move. While others get a frame in the ball-park and keep swapping parts - with knowledge and intent - until it all works. I’ve always done the latter, but it still can be a slow and expensive process.
I knew my fit fairly well before getting my last new bike. I had trouble finding a frame small enough that still had 29" wheels. And I still had to swap many fits parts out almost immediately. Like stem, handlebar, and cranks.
Also fit calculators and the manufacturer’s sizing charts don’t seem to suit a lot of us. Especially as we age. I tried the Jenson USA one above and it put me on a 19" / large MTB. I ride a small and it’s still probably too big.
There is also a MTB way of sizing called RAD. I use it and it works for me. It sizes for bike control as smaller bikes are easier to control.
I decided to use it. It gave the correct length from seat tube to handle bar end but suggested a TT length outside of what I know works for me over multiple years and bikes.Yes larger than what I need at ~575mm. It suggested a shorter stem than I use and like. I have learnt that ett 565 -580 works for me. I just use the stem to get the handle bar distance I require. I just selected that as it popped up as free and gave the option for ride style and age.
The old competitive cyclist calculator, over a decade ago now, worked well. I have just bought the hands up a touch in the last 15 years is all.
MTB fit calcultors probably work for MTBs. If that is what we are after in a more upright posture it might work. No idea as I have never used one.
I would like to see Dave on his bike to have any clue of what his fit is like but I am not a fitter. Getting a bike fit will be cheaper than a new bike and will be a good indicator of what size the bike should be if one is purchased. The fitter will be able to see and position Dave and ask what his issues and preferences are. Far more chance of success than us who have a variety of ride styles, sizes, postions and preferences.
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Yes I agree with all the considerations you wrote about Nobody and Warthog and I appreciate the time you both have put in and your thoughts on my predicament.
I really like the Vivente, it’s solid, feels good on the road yet somewhat slow with me on it and I also love the Trek.
Over the years I have changed a few things from stock standard so as to fit me better and while it’s far from perfect, I can control the bike as it is but would like to to feel more ONE with the bike.
The only way I can change the frame is to buy a spare frame from Vivente in Medium, but then I think the only ones they have are built now with a frame separation for the gates belt drive…I think it would be too exxy to do that…wait till I find a medium frame model the same age model as Mine but again, they are still asking $1,600 to $2,500 as these previous models are discontinued so are more rarer considering now that the new Rhollhoff models are around $7,500 to buy new.
So what I’ve done over the past few years is bought a much shorter stem with more rise than before. Bought about 3 different saddles for it over the 9 years I’ve had it persevering with them as much as possible but i think the original VWR gel saddle was the better of the lot so I’ll buy another of them from Vivente directly.
On the Trek Marlin 7, I’ve tried to turn it into half commuter style and half touring/ bikepacking style…still a work in progress but I had the original competition style bars shortened off each end and bought an extension stem post to lift the entire bar set up, I will buy a better bar eventually…it has a dropper post which is awesome but it’s not really a bike that i’ll be riding downhill on, I have put a rear Bontraeger rack on and am using my front panniers from the Vivente on the Trek so I have somewhere to put a few things if I’m out and about. So it’s no longer a racing comp MTB at this point. lol.
I’m intending to sell the Motorcycle perhaps before Xmas while there’s fresh rego on it, I just gotta clean it up a bit first with some touch up paint on the crash bars. I want to concentrate on the cycling more than I care about riding the motorcycle now…had fun on it…great bike but time for a change soon, I can always buy another later if I want. I’m on the verge of downsizing my stuff including my 4 BBQs…as we may be moving back to Sydney next year…wifey is miserable in Albury … it’s not easy to socialise here.
Regards
Dave
Me on Vivente…sorry about the angle, wife was taking photo, I was having to lean on brick wall
Told you I was old & Decrepit
This is saddle and post from Trek MTB (they were loaded not in sequence.)
Below is the saddle and post from the Vivente
Me on Trek MTB
This seems to be a better sized bike overall although the handlebars were too low for me until I added an extension stem
Trek Marlin 7 MTB
The Vivente WR Patagonia (Below)
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I don’t think you need a new frame going off those photos. You still have the ability to shorten the stem further on the Vivente if you need. Looks ok to me.
My type of fit/riding is much different to yours, but I don’t see a frame that is totally the wrong size.
The trek post is a zero offset post and you have the saddle right forward on the Vivente offset post. If the are the same diameter you could try the Trek post in the Vivente. A zero offset post looks like it is what you need on there.
On second thoughts it may be a dropper post on the Trek? I know nothing about them but would prob be a pita to swap out.
Yeah Warty, it’s a dropper post mate fitted to a cable so I don’t want to upset that system but maybe if I could find a zero offset post to try it out…it could be just what is called for…I think the rest of the bike could be made to adapt me better if I just change a few things…
It’s in such good condition, there’s not too many of the traditional touring bike set-ups like the Vivente around these days, possibly the Kona Sutra might be the only bike left with the bar end shifters and they are not the Shimano Dura-ace like the ones one mine, I think are the Micro-shift ones are the only brand left.
I had the handlebars turned up towards me more with the hoods closer to me but then I had to reach a long way to change gears
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Yeah I would also say that looking at you on the Vivente, it doesn’t appear too large.
I reckon that quickest thing to try would be to install a zero-offset seatpost.
The zero-offset seatposts do cost a bit more than the traditional style ones.
I had a quick look on Pushys website and here is a good quality one :
There are some cheaper zero-offset posts on their inventory but the cheaper ones are either in the 30+ mm diameter (I assume that your Vivente is a 27.2 diameter), or are out of stock !