Consumer’s are dumb. SRAM and Shimano both went to 11 speed not because they had to or thought it better but because they had to keep up with the Jones’ … or in this case the Campagnolo’s. SRAM would have had bucket loads of marketing and sales advice and I’m sure the bottom line was telling them the would be losing sales. I know for sure the didn’t need to go to 11 speeds … but the dumb fuck consumer’s of this world more or less forced them to as it was bad business/marketing not to.
We know where this race ends and also know how stupid it is.
I would have been proud had SRAM defiantly stayed with 10 speed but I’m a minority in the bigger scheme of things. I would have liked them to have taken a spin on mocking the others, using their reluctance to conform to 11 speed as a point of difference, something the could use as a positive spin, a kind of anti-ad. But no doubt they know what they’re doing and I’m sure their business heads are smarter than mine.
I still wish one of the manufacturers had the balls to make a high end 8 (or 9) speed road groupset. Something that is high quality, as refined and well built as record/dura-ace/red but without the finicky, sensitive nature that those groups may entail as they wear and also something that quite simply lasts longer in the drivetrain side. Most of us only really need 8 or 9 gears … unfortunately if we want better shifters, top class derailleurs, something nicely finished and with good brakes then we need to opt for the 10/11 speed groupsets. It’s a shitty bind the majority of cyclists are more or less forced to accept. I call it 80% of people who don’t need more than 2 x 8 gears yet there is no middle ground.
I haven’t had a look at the SRAM 11 yet. Hydro is a worry … not for any other reason than idiots attempts at diy installation/repair. Again I don’t think it’s a necessary development but then again I don’t think much is.
fwiw, I worked with and ridden all the groupsets and they’re all pretty good. Each one is slightly different and has it’s benefits, some are styled differently and how the appeal is more subjective, and price matters to some but not all. All of it costs, the parts wear and the prices are getting higher. Groups don’t last anywhere near as long as they used to. Most parts these days are replace when worn only and all have a limited life span. That’s mostly as a trade off because of the race to lighter weight. However, if everything’s well maintained and properly set up I see no reason why people would shoot down one brand over others … then again most people don’t know shit yet sound off like experts.
Am I the only person who just likes even numbers when it comes to groupsets? There’s no logic … but give me 6,8 or 10 speeds over 5/7/9/11 any day !!!
I like this thinking. Imagine 8-9 speeds and LIGHTER than all the 10-11 speed groupsets, now that would be super sweet. Kinda like Dura Ace 7400 but light. YES!
Oh and you wouldn’t need to change all your fucking wheels to run it!
au contraire mon frere … modern cars with sophisticated engine management systems run much longer miles, often 3 to 4 times the miles of an average hk engine before needing a rebuild. most modern cars if properly maintained (regular oil changes) will run 300,000 to 500,000 km’s. old cars needed a top end rebuild at 80-120,000 k’s. we don’t need to mention how modern cars pollute far less, require much less fuel and are a helluva lot safer.
don’t get me wrong … I love old cars but nobody is foolish enough to believe they make a better daily driver than what’s around today. modern cars are also far more reliable statistically but do cost a lot more to repair if the break down (that’s the price of sophistication).
your comparison doesn’t stick (but it is quite amusing). I’m all for modern components … I’m just saying 80% of the people don’t need the # war when it comes to gears. in this aspect less is more.
Cycling should be like golf,
Muppets hit big drivers, big cavity back forgiving clubs,
Pros hit tiny drivers and blades.
The consumers drive a market that is so seperate from what pros use.
What spizzy is getting at (I think) is that instead of this n+1 gears arms race, why not refine stuff that works so that it works better? Case in point the shram 11. As someone said, they can’t get 10 right, why go 11?
Transpose that onto shimanyolo: why don’t they perfect 8 or 9 speed, get the shifters working amazingly, refine chains, refine cassettes, refine brakes, making everything backward and forward compatible.
But as you say, it’s the punter’s money to spend on something they don’t need.
^ To be fair, my partner has got Dura Ace 9000 on her bike and it’s pretty freaking sweet. Zero adjustment required yet so in that sense Shimano have further ‘refined’ their group with respect to 7900.
However my greatest bugbear is how god damn fragile the groups have become thanks to carbon and resin technology- I’ve stacked my road bike a couple of times recently (gravel, don’t ask) and it sucks how easily the soft carbon fibre levers and plastic resin body get damaged. Thank god the cranks are still aluminium. And going by the amount of scratches on my 7810 pedals I’m super happy I don’t have those newer carbon 7900/9000 pedals. One stack on asphalt and they’re toast!
i won’t bother talking about sram.
in my mildly retarded engineering head, in order to improve 8/9 speed systems from where they were, they would have to narrow the chains, cassettes and cog spacings to you guessed it, 10/11 speed. mechanical shifting systems(well any system really) are actually quite stupid, all you are doing is forcing the chain into the cog and hoping that friction will make it jump up a gear (or pulling it off and hoping it lands on top of a smaller cog), so naturally if you want to make this easier you would reduce the spacing. which then leads to (ignoring shimano 11) “well if we can fit more on there why the fuck not?”.
having more gears is actually nice, i find that i more often than not have the actual gear i want on my 11 speed bikes, more so than on my 10 speed and remembering back to when i had 9 speed. no you don’t need it, but you don’t need a refined 6/7/8/9 speed group do you? fuck, you don’t need gears at all. you don’t even need a fucking bike.
ima keep on buying shit i don’t need, because i can and i want to.
True this, except what about spares, and the fact old mate you bought it off wore the shit out of it?
I reckon the most cost effective thing to do is buy Tiagra- fuck it’s 10 speed these days and pretty much old 105/Ultegra level, whole groupset for like $300.00. Even new Deore is 10-speed and same as old XT.
I should really be on Tiagra, I don’t ‘deserve’ DA.
