IMO, probably 105. Tiagra would be Mirage.
And… Picasso would have ridden Campag.
Picasso would have ridden anything he could get his leg over.
Typical campagnolo-lover comparison 
Using this logic, Dura Ace would be the equivalent of what, Chorus??
Chorus is in line with ultegra… Maybe record for the dura ace. 7900 is not even close to super record in shifting or weight…
So what’s Centaur or Athena? I would put 105 around there.
Cept it’s just not… I think campag has more stuff in the middle while 105 and Tiagra are defantly geared towards cheaper OEM usage…
Remember Shimano have the 11 speed groups on the way so maybe the layers will square up a little more…
It’s all a matter of taste and the desire for the “passion” though…
You buy campag cause you want to treat your self to something a little special… Just happens to be super comfortable and works really well. It’s a bit like drinking champagne and sparkling wine… They both do the same thing… One just taste a bit better…
Shimano couldn’t give a flying fuck about the other 2… High end groupsets make up so little of the market and they have the Lions share of the whole thing any way…
For every campag gruppo sold they sell 100 105 OEM groupsets… Prolly more.
Ultegra imo
Ouch the word as told by spritio himself.
I remember one time this old bloke came into the shop, years ago, and was telling me he needed campag (which at that time could dump heaps of gears at once) saying he needed it for the bunch sprint on his coffee shop ride. He essentially told me if you were a sprinter, you couldn’t use Shimano.
I told him I’d let Thor Hushovd know (who at that time was vying for the green jersey).
Stunned mullets all around.
Do campag lovers support the campag teams at the classics/grand tours etc?
The floral language is all well and good SK, but can you describe the differences in concrete? Sure there is 11speed, I agree with you there- what else?
Passion and ergonomics.
Oh and resale. That’s what I can attain from this thread.
so if Veloce is up there with 105 or (arguably) Ultegra why do Campy bother with so many (5) other gruppos above Veloce?
Surely it would serve them better to cut at least one of their groups to give a clearer definition between weight/quality/performance
Good question…
Aren’t some of them a mix of alu/carbon and some all carbon? Plus weight differences of course.
low end campy does look better than low end shimano
i personally dont belive low end campy functions any better than low end shimano
the ergonomics of both might be great for some people but terrible for others
the only real difference is passion and soul
cant believe people are so concerned about resale value on a groupset that only costs about $400 brand new for everything including cables. a low end groupset is always going to be low end. cheap stuff is made for using, not for worrying about selling later.
ps hubbards who are in the market for a used low end groupset would go for shimano anyway ‘campy is weird and unreliable!’
and likely have him swear at you… he has been defeated by PT cranks once already.
however, that was before the official tool existed.
Because there is a perceived need by the Campy marketing department.
Athena was dropped for a long time and I can only guess is was re-introduced to offer a cheaper, all alloy 11 speed option for people wanting to put this on frames for classic look.
Compare it to the automotive industry and Porsche in particular. The ‘performance’ of the different models is directly related to how much they cost. To the point that they have models that could perform better but would eat into market share of higher models.
also when i see this thread title it reminds me of - fucken magnets, how do they work?
Thank you for the summary. I think we can close the thread now.
Unless it’s Campagnolo- in that case it involves a lot of polishing down the track when you pass it onto you grandkids. While Shimano is an evil product like a disposable camera.
i think its good we can argue about choice, rather than having no choice.